testers wanted / journal / hicksdesign

05/11/03

testers wanted

Are you bored? Got time to kill? Fancy spending a minute helping me out? Good, I was hoping you’d say that.

I’ve been working on the mouse wheel problem with my site design. As it uses overflow:auto users can’t use the scrollwheels on their mice. I think I’ve got a fix, and it can be scrolled by either keyboard or mousewheel. Problem is, I’m a long way from home with only my G4 powerbook and no PC. Virtual PC has some ‘issues’ too.

So far I know it works in Mac browsers (Safari, Camino, Mozilla, Firebird). I’m looking for feedback on PC browsers with mousewheel users, particularly Mozilla, Opera, IE 5 & 6. It won’t work in IE 5 Mac – but I’ve compensated for it the CSS, so users see a layout with no tricks. In IE on PC scrolling works when hovering over the scrolling area, which I think is normal for IE – please let me know if it isn’t.

Also, at the moment, its fluid width, rather than fixed. I may change that – not sure yet. So if you’d like to help have a look at this test page and let me know.

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Comments are now closed, but you can still have a jolly time reading what others have left:

Tony White said 1857 days ago:

using firebird 0.6.1 on win xp pc - the test page scrolls fine with the scroll wheel.

QUiS? said 1857 days ago:

Firebird 0.6 on Win98 looks just fine, scrolls with the cursor hovering anywhere on the page.

IE6 Win98 looks a bit of a mess and only scrolls when the cursor is over the div. I've gotten you a screenshot which I will leave at the following URL for a week or two:

http://www.quis.cc/upload/HDIE6W98.jpg ~160K

Hope that helps sum. It's a shame the IE thing, cos it looks tasty in FB.

Ethan said 1857 days ago:

The test layout looks incredible in both Firebird and Opera 7, but is broken in Win2k/IE6 (as QUiS reported). Looks incredible, though--can't wait to see the finished product.

Jinketsu said 1857 days ago:

I've tried both MozFB 7 and Mozilla 1.5, WinXP and it doesn't work. Using the arrow keys doesn't work also.

Scott Johnson said 1857 days ago:

I'm using Firebird 0.7 on XP and I get no scroll. I have two different wheels that often work differently, but neither of them will scroll this site. In IE6 on the same PC, both wheels scroll the box just fine. Opera 7.20 on the same PC performs just as Firebird--no scrolling. Mozilla 1.5 also does not scroll.

Jon Hicks said 1857 days ago:

Thanks so much for the quick response and screenshots - its such a help!

I realised that the layout problems in IE are probably due to cookies for the current site style. I've changed the names so there shouldn't be a conflict, if you refresh, it should be OK. Could you have another look whenever you get chance?

Brad said 1857 days ago:

Works fine on OSX running Safari but when I look at it in IE, the layout is broken (no constrained edges, all white background.)

note: in Safari, the scroll bar is over in the far right in the browser gutter instead of to the left of the //hicksdesign * graphic (which is where I prefer it)

Dris said 1857 days ago:

Very nice, works fine in Safari... Looking at it really quickly, it looks like you're using fixed positioning on everything but the content... Brilliant! I did the same thing a long time ago:
http://dris.webhop.org/external/skins/Unused/Rain/index.html

The design is crippled at the moment (I've changed the markup quite a bit since I coded it), but it shows the scrolly-thingy.

Richard said 1857 days ago:

I use Mozilla Firebird 0.7 on WinXP Pro. I can't scroll the main page, but I can scroll individual entry pages.

Well, scratch that. Now I can't scroll the entry pages. I tried clicking out of the comment box to scroll and it doesn't work anymore.

On a side note your comment box deletes the personal info after you enter it. I had entered my name and email and then clicked 'No' when you ask. It then deleted my name/email. It might work out better asking the personal info question first.

#10

Richard said 1857 days ago:

Don't I feel stupid. I was commenting on your current site, not the test site you set up. On the test site it seems to work fine.

But the personal info issue still is a problem.

#11

Adam Bramwell said 1857 days ago:

Gee, looks like there's alot of fb0.7/xp users out there!

As you know jon it works, but i find the new positioning of the scrollbar really unintuitive, seeing as only part of the screen scrolls. This is exacerbated by in the new design, the width of the 'viewport' is widened to full screen width?

The end effect is that it looks less like a framed layout (perhaps what you intened?) but in my eyes a tad less balanced.

#12

Patrick said 1857 days ago:

Running Win ME:

Firebird 0.7: scrolls (with wheelmouse)
IE 6.0.28blah: scrolls, with wheelmouse, but design is horribly, horribly broken. Repeat of Quis?'s screenshot.

#13

hayezilla said 1857 days ago:

Funny - scrolling does not work when your homepage loads. Then I click to add a comment to tell you it wont work, but it works in when the site loads the comments page. Tried reloading and get the same problem. Using Firebird 0.7 on Win2K

#14

hayezilla said 1857 days ago:

Mmmm - made the same mistake - works in your test site beautifully!

#15

clark said 1857 days ago:

using firebird 0.7 on windows 2000. Scrolls fine (but there is a overflowing pb in the script part of the php snippet post (october 22))

#16

Jon Hicks said 1857 days ago:

Well I'm really impressed by the amount of people willing to help here. Thanks everyone, I really appreciate it.

So looks like IE PC is a no-goer, which makes this 'solution' a no-goer too. Also, I think Adam's right, the way that the scroll bar gets shifted to the far right isn't very intuitive.

Dris - thats right, it uses fixed positioning to create grey frames top and bottom to mask the content. The html is pretty standard, but the CSS is a mass of hacks to get it to work in various browsers. There's such a thing as trying to be too clever. Ah well, it was worth a shot, and who knows, I may be able to sort out the IE problem sometime...

Thanks for the notes about the Javascript problem, I thought that was fixed. I'll look into it..

#17

Dysfunksional.Monkey said 1857 days ago:

Under XP, SP1:

Moz 1.5//
Looking sweet. Scrolling with mousewheel is smooth and consistant - no error or jumpy-bits. Menus work correctly, no splodging.

Firebird 0.6//
Scrolling works well. Looks same as Moz (as it should). Splodging with Menus, which disappears after scroll. Probably due to old gecko engine.

Opera 7.11//
Looks same as Moz(Gecko), scrolls well. Slight error with menu during scroll - same as firebird.

Lynx 2.8.3//
Works fine. Fully readable, links working correctly. Skipnav link visible at top.

IE 6.0.2800...//
Ahem... *chuckle*... erm... one word really... oops. Huge mess really. But then again, it *is* IE...

Comments//
Very nice - top marks. Only slight issues with "Standards-compliant" browsers, and i'm running an old version of firebird anyways (still calls itself phoenix). Might work correctly in IE if you remove the begning XML tag - I've found that can really bugger IE up sometimes. Not too sure about the Conditional Comment for IE - bit of a hack?

#18

Dysfunksional.Monkey said 1857 days ago:

Oh, by the way - keep it fluid, and try to make the blockquote areas wrap. Its much nicer. I keep my browsers at 800*600 on my mammoth screens, just so i know what other people are seeing. Its much nicer to be able to see everything without having to scroll sideways to maximise.

#19

Jon Hicks said 1857 days ago:

Thanks for the tip about the XML tag! I've removed that now, so please try again...

Bear in mind that this is just a single test page. Links and menus may/may not work. This is purely for layout and scrolling issues.

#20

Paul J said 1857 days ago:

Works fine on Win XP with IE 6.0

#21

Jon Hicks said 1857 days ago:

So maybe the XML tag was causing the problems? If so, D.Monkey, you're a star!

#22

kyle said 1856 days ago:

Moz 1.5b on Win2k, and it scrolls fine. The text in this comment box, however, is quite small. :)

#23

Jeff Croft said 1856 days ago:

Jon-

Nice post, and of particular interest to me. As you know, my site uses a similar "framed" type of setup, so I've had the scrolling complaint, too.

I have to agree with Adam. Even though you seem to have cleverly found a way to get the scrolling to work, I'm not fond of the visual effect. The scrollbar can be (depending on screen resolution) quite a long ways from the actuall scrolling content, and it's also the length of the browser window, rather than that of the scrolling content. To me, it's distracting.

I guess for me personally, I'd rather just wait until browser makers start better supporting scrolling over individual DIVs (and they should).

Still, you've done a great job of coming up with a very clever solution! Nice work!

Jeff

#24

Pulat Yunusov said 1856 days ago:

Scrolls fine in Mozilla 1.5 (Linux,KDE 3.1.2).

#25

Jinketsu said 1856 days ago:

Tried it again and it works. Clicking anywhere in the page breaks the scrolling however.

#26

Jon Hicks said 1856 days ago:

Nice to see you 'round these parts Jinketsu!

Quite a drawback with the clicking thing. I think this gets filed under "it might have worked in a world without IE6"

#27

Dysfunksional.Monkey said 1856 days ago:

Its now working in IE6 XP+SP1, however, its still a little out compared to Moz1.5. I've emailed you a couple of screen-shots, just so you can see how its out. It works though, which is the main thing. There's a delay on the roll-overs, however.

I really do like the design as it shows in Moz. Its refreshing to see something which doesn't conform to the ususal MT/ALA-box-largeheaderimage-style.

Oh, and the txt in here's a little small. And it doesn't remember my "Personal info" (Moz1.5). Buggerin thing...

#28

Jon Hicks said 1855 days ago:

Personal info should now fixed - finally!

#29

Josh said 1855 days ago:

Hey Jon, I tested FB.7, IE 6, IE 5.5, and IE 5.01 thanks to Joe Maddalone. :) Firebird looks and works well. IE six looks broken and doesn't scroll unless i click the content area first and then scroll. doing that that it scrolls fine. IE 5.5 looks and works better than IE 6 for some reason. It immediately worked without me clicking anywhere first. IE 5.01 it doesn't work at all.

By the way, I'm running winxp.

#30

Dris said 1855 days ago:

It may be a little late to note this, but it's a darn shame to have to completely avoid overflow: auto for nothing more than scrollwheel support. This is clearly a bug in the browsers (though very good browsers) that I'm sure will be fixed soon enough. I'm willing to "tough it out" until said fix (hey, we haven't always had scrollwheels, we'll live). :P

On the flip side, as Jon said, no such thing as being too clever! 'Twas a good time, and people always benefit from seeing something cool that they never thought of before.

End of short, meaningless rant.

#31

Jon HIcks said 1853 days ago:

Dris,

Thanks for that. I think was worth a try, but there were several points against it (apart from not working properly!). The scrollbar position isn't intuitive and it relies on SO many different CSS hacks to get it right that its bound to fall over.

Thanks Dris, its encouraging to know that some folk are willing to stick with it despite not being able to use scrollwheels